Wednesday, September 11, 2024

Haitians in Ohio and the Immigrant Economy

Right now the debate over immigration in America is so stupid it makes my head hurt.

Anti-immigrant Americans want to complain about crime and violence and cat-eating and what-all. But this is nonsense. Immigrants commit crimes, sure, but every number I have seen, whether from the FBI or individual states, shows that they commit fewer crimes than the native born. No doubt there are towns out there where immigrants commit most of the crimes, because those are places where most of the young men are immigrants. Some immigrants do drugs, but, again, not as much as the native born. When people point this out on Twitter/X, the usual response is just to say "You're Lying!" Sigh.

Immigrants do have a high rate of severe mental health problems, but I've never seen anyone cite this in opposition to immigration and anyway the rate of schizophrenia isn't high enough to be a real economic or social problem.

That doesn't mean there are no reasons to oppose immigration. Pro-immigration (or anti-Trump) people have been passing around this interview (summary here) with one of the Ohio factory owners responsible for drawing a lot of Haitains to Springfield:

I was I had thirty more. Our Haitian associates come to work every day. They don't have a drug problem. They will stay at their machine. They will achieve their numbers. They are here to work. And so, in general, that's a stark difference from what we're used to in our community.

So from a factory-owners's perspective, immigration is great. They get people who will do repetitive drudge work all day for mediocre wages. Because however bad working in a factory in Ohio might be, it beats the heck out of being shot by gangsters in Haiti. So, win-win for the factory owners and the Haitians.

But you could ask a different question: is there any way we could convert those dreary factory jobs that upstanding native born Americans don't want into something better? Is it, maybe, that the manufacturers can get away with offering low wages and drudgery because they are competing, not just against whatever US-born workers might be doing instead, but against conditions in Haiti and Venezuela and Vietnam?

(Pro-Trump Republicans like to say that Harris supporters are communists, but imagine a real communist sharing a video casting a factory owner as the hero and the lazy workers as the bad guys.)

A more rational case against immigration would go like this: life in the US is better than life in most places because we limit how many people we take in. If we take in too many that will drag life here down toward conditions in the rest of the world. So long as there are immigrant workers desperate for any kind of job, companies have no incentive to change their work practices toward something better for workers. Step one toward making life in America better for working people, therefore, is to limit the number of immigrants. And maybe the social pathologies of the working class might actually be reduced if we focused on this, and people who could get less miserable, better-paying jobs might be more likely to stay sober and get married and so on.

I think this is wrong, but at least it makes sense. Alas, I've been reading takes on the Haitians in Ohio story for two days and I have not seen this argument made even once. All the anti-immigrant people are fulminating against crime and disorder and community breakdown, which manifestly are not happening.

I believe that immigration is great for the US economy. I believe that the only reason it is still thriving is that immigrants study harder in school than the native born, get more education, work harder, found more companies, and generally do more to make the country thrive than the native born. I have never seen a single credible number that refutes this. That does not mean all immigration is good, or that we couldn't come up with a better system for deciding whom to admit, or that the current number is the best one, or anything like that; just that on net, immigration is a plus. I would like to see companies work harder to recruit workers and change their processes to make them less onerous. I have a feeling, though, that this is not going to happen. I imagine that if we tried to force (say) chicken processors to improve conditions the jobs would just all move to Mexico. (Or, if they didn't, the price of chicken would soar.) Any given level of technology seems to come with its own forms of drudgery.

But this is America in our era: if you want a good life, in economic terms, you have to get a lot of education and put it to use, or else throw yourself into some kind of blue-collar work and get ahead by working hard. You must live a life of bourgeois discipline: getting up every day, getting dressed, going to work, making your numbers, etc. If you fall off that path via depression, drug use, chronic injury, or what have you, your life is going to be hard. Some people fantasize that ending immigration would reduce this pressure, that it would lessen the competition and mean everybody gets more for working less. I think the opposite is true, that in fact hard-working immigrants sustain the rest of us. 

But at least this is an argument worth having. Who is eating cats is not.

8 comments:

David said...

Very interesting. But I wonder, is the United States right now capable of having an argument worth having about anything? What would it take to make that happen? I'm skeptical of question-begging answers like, "what we need is a lot of people of good will" or "we need to start being nicer." But could someone of sufficient presence and charisma, for example, lead the way? I like Harris well enough and plan to vote for her, but I found myself wondering during the debate, what if Jack Kennedy were standing in her place? Granted that JFK now has this messianic image that one can see through; I'm no Oliver Stone. But what if?

David said...

I sometimes wonder if one reason we don't have arguments worth having, is that, for much of the human condition, there simply are no good answers. To provide ourselves a good life, we need at least some people to live under bourgeois discipline. But bourgeois discipline, especially to the degree that it is sometimes demanded, is quite horrible for a lot of people. I'm struck by a passage from Wesley Yang's The Souls of Yellow Folk, which I encountered in Carlos Lozada's estimable What Were We Thinking: "Let me summarize my feelings toward Asian values. Fuck filial piety. Fuck grade-grubbing. Fuck Ivy League mania. Fuck deference to authority. Fuck humility and hard work. Fuck harmonious relations. Fuck sacrificing for the future. Fuck earnest, striving middle-class servility."

David said...

Of course, if we decided to have our society be more easy-going, like a sort of hypothesized pre-Macron France, practical-economic difficulties would probably loom. And it might well be horrible for people who not only want to strive, but can't abide those who don't, or who think the cause of depression is lack of striving. Like I said, no good answers.

G. Verloren said...

But this is America in our era: if you want a good life, in economic terms, you have to get a lot of education and put it to use, or else throw yourself into some kind of blue-collar work and get ahead by working hard. You must live a life of bourgeois discipline: getting up every day, getting dressed, going to work, making your numbers, etc. If you fall off that path via depression, drug use, chronic injury, or what have you, your life is going to be hard.

You're forgetting the third option - be born into wealth, use your inherited money to found a new company / buy out an already successful one, collect the lion's share of the profits while paying your employees a pittance, and never work a day in your life.

John said...

@Anonymous - I don't deny that immigration creates problems. But the fact is that the US economy is thriving, and so far as I can see that is only because of immigrants. Immigrants work harder, get more education, and are more than twice as likely to found companies as the native born. Without them it would be the 1970s again, stagflation and the rust belt. Seriously, look into who founded and runs our top companies. Look into who is becoming doctors and CPAs. Immigrants and their children. What older cities are doing well? The ones attracting immigrants. Which ones are dying? The ones immigrants aren't going to.

I am not a supporter of open borders and I do support limits, but the main reason we can't limit immigration is that Republicans oppose the only measures that would really work: biometric national id cards and serious prosecution and penalties for companies that hire undocumented immigrants. The people who hire the undocumented -- farmers, small construction companies, etc. -- are loyal Republicans, so nothing is ever done to crack down on them, and national id cards are anathema to libertarians and fundamentalists.

Anonymous said...

You're forgetting the third option - be born into wealth, use your inherited money to found a new company / buy out an already successful one, collect the lion's share of the profits while paying your employees a pittance, and never work a day in your life.

Or four: fire all your American workers and replace them with migrants who will work for less and not start up any pesky unions. If they do, fire them and replace them with the next wave of migrants.

G. Verloren said...

@Anonymous

Oh, so you'd be okay with allowing "migrants" so long as they were required to be unionized? >eye roll

Hey, wild idea for you - why don't YOU unionize? If more Americans were members of unions, then companies COULDN'T just fire workers and replace them with people who will work less.

Or even crazier - what if instead of forcing Americans to continuously organize and fight for workers' rights themselves, our government (which is supposed to represent the needs and interests of the masses) decided to just enshrine worker's rights into law?

What if we just... held companies accountable? If employers couldn't easily get away with intentionally hiring workers who they know aren't legally cleared to be here, then jobs won't be able to be "taken away from" other people.

And at the exact same time, if immigrants can't easily get jobs without going through the proper channels to enter the country, then what incentive would they have to try to come into the country illegally? If you want fewer people entering the country without proper clearance, then you need to remove the primary motivations for them to do that.

So many problems in this country could be vastly improved or even fully resolved if we just bothered to stop and think about what kinds of incentives we give people to behave in certain ways.

The same thing applies to other aspects of immigration - such as our abysmal processing rates for legal immigrants. It shouldn't take TEN YEARS for a model immigrant to become a citizen. And yet it frequently does, because the government doesn't want to spend the money to speed up the process.

Imagine if the DMV took multiple years to renew your driver's license. People would riot, and they would demand that the government get off their asses, stop being so stingy, and just allocate the necessary funds to expand the DMV, hire more people, and pick up the goddamn pace. Same issue.

Anonymous said...

Lol way to misunderstand everything. The problem is not fixed by simply changing the nomenclature "illegal" to "legal". If we declared all the migrants in NYC legal immigrants it's not going to change a thing. There's still no place to put them, they're still going to cost the city a fortune.

Oh, so you'd be okay with allowing "migrants" so long as they were required to be unionized? >eye roll
What a mindbogglingly stupid statement >eye roll.