tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post4695360638891815882..comments2024-03-28T18:32:05.933-04:00Comments on bensozia: The Rehabilitation of Ebenezer ScroogeJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-38164202218995793132016-06-23T08:48:10.222-04:002016-06-23T08:48:10.222-04:00Touché.Touché.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-11214923923711424322016-06-23T08:39:11.180-04:002016-06-23T08:39:11.180-04:00I mean, it's been years since I've heard o...I mean, it's been years since I've heard of a philosophy so utterly joyless.<br /><br />After all, if someone's program boils down to, "the rest of you should all change your minds and adopt my way of thinking," we can have the fun of denouncing that person as a fascist. Unless we're a Gausian, in which case we have to mind our own business.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-16677968654316181952016-06-23T08:34:54.011-04:002016-06-23T08:34:54.011-04:00Maybe, but Gaus' answer seems to be, "I&#...Maybe, but Gaus' answer seems to be, "I'm going to take all your toys away."Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-64332308817242334862016-06-23T08:24:43.540-04:002016-06-23T08:24:43.540-04:00I think the key point of Gaus' argument is thi...I think the key point of Gaus' argument is this question: can you have a democratic society made up of groups that despise each other? If not, what are we going to do about it? Our current answer is, "fudge," which is our answer to all sorts of philosophical questions. And maybe that is good enough. But I still think it is important to raise this flag whenever anyone's program boils down to "the rest of you should all change your minds and adopt my way of thinking."Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-81906407974659735942016-06-23T07:23:59.572-04:002016-06-23T07:23:59.572-04:00And, if we must be Gausians, how will I get that w...And, if we must be Gausians, how will I get that warm, special feeling I get when I denounce @pithom as a vile racist? And how will you (@John) know the joy of issuing that First Blast Of The Trumpet Against Them As Would Keep Others Off The Grass? And how will we experience that portentous, high-minded dread that comes from knowing that we're going to suffer what's coming to us someday, and that it's so richly deserved? I mean, really! Let's have no more of this Gaus stuff!Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-78550949927665666882016-06-22T23:10:36.468-04:002016-06-22T23:10:36.468-04:00Oops. By your post, I meant John's.Oops. By your post, I meant John's.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-71259493338012631312016-06-22T23:09:58.964-04:002016-06-22T23:09:58.964-04:00On the basis, I admit, of one read of your post, I...On the basis, I admit, of one read of your post, I get the impression that Gaus is effectively positing two kinds of people: the Gausians, who operate under a ferocious and austere self-discipline to avoid making any negative judgments on anyone, and the rest of the people, who happily go along their regular ways, judging people they don't like and expressing all sorts of preferences and hates and hostility-venting, until the world comes full circle and the hate gets turned on them and they get what's coming to them, just like the Bolsheviks.<br /><br />Can I be in the second group, the group that's like, alive?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-16852518245613379152016-06-22T23:02:30.467-04:002016-06-22T23:02:30.467-04:00Gaus' argument seems to boil down to complaini...Gaus' argument seems to boil down to complaining that tolerant people are intolerant of intolerant people.<br /><br />There must always be a line drawn somewhere. The question is where you choose to draw it. You can either base your objections on arbitrary grounds such as religion or ethnic identity or tradition or other irrational things, or you can choose to object to demonstrably harmful behaviors.<br /><br />It is impossible to not object to anything, short of attaining some form of Buddhist enlightenment and total detachment from the world. It is likewise equally impossible to <i>"construct our institutions so as to keep (our neighbors hating and despising us) from doing too much harm"</i>. Institutions do not exist within vacuums - they are an extension of the cultural values of the people who construct them.<br /><br />You can't have a society in which your laws and institutions forbid something without that inherently being a rejection of the prohibited behavior. You can't forbid murder without creating the implicit understanding that murder will not be tolerated. Protecting the murder-intolerant segments of society from those who would seek to murder them inherently means objecting to murder, and by extension to those who value or champion it. Pure "hands off" coexistence between murder-tolerant and murder-intolerant cultures simply is not possible, because the values of one party or the other must necessarily be infringed.<br /><br />So what ultimately matters is choosing which values to infringe upon, and why. Obviously we reject murder because it is demonstrably harmful both to individuals and to society as a whole. There is a strong rational argument to be made against it. The same kind of reasoning is why we regulate businesses, why we place certain restrictions on freedom of speech, why we create laws, and why we tax the populace and put the proceeds towards public services - we seek to protect people from the predations of their neighbors, and to promote general wellbeing among all.<br /><br />And so it needs to be for all our choices regarding which values to embrace and which to reject. When we draw the line, it need to be because we have a rational wish to limit harm and to promote the public good. And when people try to draw the line in improper places, wishing to object to things on irrational grounds, we need to refuse to allow it.G. Verlorennoreply@blogger.com