tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post967892137217516676..comments2024-03-28T18:32:05.933-04:00Comments on bensozia: Returning Soldiers and a Divided AmericaJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-19379599487328580992016-05-21T08:33:01.654-04:002016-05-21T08:33:01.654-04:00Interesting. On a slightly different topic, your ...Interesting. On a slightly different topic, your comment suggests to me why the Republican coalition *may* be more prone to fission than the Democratic one. The conservatives are divided into various schools, all with passionate and mutually-contradictory ideas about what constitutes the good life, from your communitarian, family-oriented paleocons and religious fundies, to hyperindividualist economic conservatives, to neocons who think the good society is a militarized machine on a imperial crusade. The only thing that unites them is they all think they hate Democrats more than they disagree with each other.<br /><br />Democrats, on the other hand, seem *for the moment* to be a pretty solid alliance of ethnic and other identity groups who know the other coalition isn't for them, with white liberals who think that, whatever else happens, the sine qua non of a good society is one with as little racism, sexism, etc., etc., as possible (however hypocritical they--we--may be in our personal lives). There are fissures--the old hardhat union faction, Bernie, ethnic activists suspicious of white liberals--but when it comes down to it in a presidential election, they seem to stick together. The main problem is too many don't vote in any other kind of election.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-6517660437386511462016-05-21T07:38:04.899-04:002016-05-21T07:38:04.899-04:00I think many communitarian conservatives would agr...I think many communitarian conservatives would agree that America's problems start with family breakdown, which is why they worry more about divorce and unwed parenthood than anything else. The solidarity of my family is certainly a huge factor in my life.<br /><br />Lisa was recently telling me a story about a birth in her hospital and said something about "the stepfather." I said, "How can a newborn baby have a stepfather?" She said, "It just means that the mother isn't with the biological father any more. Happens all the time." (These were white people, in case you were wondering.) I think that is a big part of what Junger is talking about.<br /><br />I also once read a story about why men commit suicide after getting divorced, which said that many had had no community other than their wives and children so divorce left them completely alone.<br /><br />So, yes. And it may be that one reason Americans are moving less is that they are trying harder to keep in touch with their kin, in the absence of any other sort of community they could join in a new place. Which drives economic conservatives crazy.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-35478113366061807392016-05-20T10:46:19.224-04:002016-05-20T10:46:19.224-04:00I wonder too if the extremely intense and seeming ...I wonder too if the extremely intense and seeming frequency of the togetherness experience of US soldiers doesn't reflect more the nature of the contemporary US military than generic war experience. My limited reading in war memoirs doesn't indicate that this feeling, or the postwar pining for it, are universal. Frequent across cultures and times, yes, but by no means universal.<br /><br />Perhaps the issue does have something to do with modern anomie, in the family rather than the community sense. The well-known "Diary of a Napoleonic Footsoldier," for example, has little to say about small-unit solidarity that I remember, but seems to indicate tight family bonds (the author constructs his memoir as conveying to his apparently large family what his war experience was like).<br /><br />"Confessions of a Mullah Warrior" does express some intense affection for some of his mujahideen comrades, but his real relationships are clearly with his large, extended family.<br /><br />Perhaps this is something in general that we're missing in our bensozia discussions about the loss of community ties. Perhaps we should look first to family, rather than community.<br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-73326890056559603532016-05-20T08:09:09.781-04:002016-05-20T08:09:09.781-04:00Well, Texas Gov. Sam Houston, an ardent anti-seces...Well, Texas Gov. Sam Houston, an ardent anti-secessionist, famously suggested a new war with Mexico as a way to prevent civil war in the US after Lincoln's election. Some German officials suggested war as an antidote to the new electoral strength of the Social Democrats after the 1912 election. Etc., etc.<br /><br />But these are hardly examples of officials seeking Junger's more intimate, personal form of "tribal" experience--they're just hoping they can use others' experience of the same. Overall, I would say that, once war policy is determined by groups of bureaucrats and politicians, the togetherness of war we are postulating would only be one among many factors, and probably not the decisive one.<br /><br />On the other hand, when it is a soldier making the decision--certainly it is has often been suggested that, for example, a longing for another grand campaign ultimately determined Napoleon's decision to invade Russia. But are the excitements of command the same as Junger's togetherness?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-31275457624951067942016-05-20T07:12:41.071-04:002016-05-20T07:12:41.071-04:00I think Junger was closer to the truth when he sai...I think Junger was closer to the truth when he said that we feel great togetherness only in times of crisis.<br /><br />I wonder if this is the reason some wars are fought.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-6457495343113735092016-05-19T21:17:11.580-04:002016-05-19T21:17:11.580-04:00I did ask if it was time to part, but I'm not ...I did ask if it was time to part, but I'm not particularly attracted to this notion either. I tried to suggest this would lead to more bitterly divided small polities.<br /><br />I'm dubious, though, about the idea that contemporary American divisions are somehow a product of modern anomie as opposed to some notional pre-modern, more "tribal" life. Pre-modern polities were often--perhaps usually--bitterly divided, the Greek polis being a premier example.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.com