tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post243791475912317300..comments2024-03-28T00:11:33.489-04:00Comments on bensozia: Red and Blue AmericaJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01037215533094998996noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-71486472808809872112016-03-07T15:18:55.123-05:002016-03-07T15:18:55.123-05:00"Tribal loyalties." YES! That's it..."Tribal loyalties." YES! That's it, the other point. The point that while a blue or a red is quick to point a finger at the other group, they are reluctant and dismissive of pointing a finger at their own, even when a pointed finger is well deserved. Thanks, David.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05353532874773316117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-28851227299908700382016-03-07T11:26:54.677-05:002016-03-07T11:26:54.677-05:00I mean, I should read who the comment is from. :-...I mean, I should read who the comment is from. :-)Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-37932535353062087172016-03-07T11:24:51.576-05:002016-03-07T11:24:51.576-05:00Whoops, sorry, Shadow Flutter. I should read a co...Whoops, sorry, Shadow Flutter. I should read a comment more carefully before I reply to it.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-79041567038020016592016-03-07T11:24:17.504-05:002016-03-07T11:24:17.504-05:00G., I think you're right about Alexander. He&...G., I think you're right about Alexander. He's not saying that there is literally no contact or overlap. He cites his own Red-like satisfaction at Bin Ladin's death. But his point is that many Blues seemed unable to fathom why he might take such satisfaction, and thought he was inhuman for feeling that way about another human's death--and then they later rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.<br /><br />Another point is a reiteration of the observation--probably oft-made without much effect--that Blues are not so much tolerant in principle as tolerant of things they don't think are bad to begin with. He's saying the Red-Blue divide isn't about, say, tolerance of difference or attitudes toward change, but tribal loyalties. There are some Blues who would have to think about it before they condemned MOVE, for example, just as there are some Reds who would have to gather themselves before denouncing the KKK, and both might give a "While I don't condone their methods" response. This *may* not describe most Blues or most Reds, but, well, is anyone truly surprised when it happens?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993570411881726772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8304928500646903522.post-47992336984809801412016-03-07T08:01:28.999-05:002016-03-07T08:01:28.999-05:00Pauline Kael, the famous film critic, is inaccurat...Pauline Kael, the famous film critic, is inaccurately reported as having said she knew no one who had voted for Richard Nixon. This is what she actually said:<br /><br />“I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don’t know. They’re outside my ken. But sometimes when I’m in a theater I can feel them.”<br /><br />http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/10/The-Fraudulent-Factoid-That-Refuses-to-Die<br /><br />The person who corrected the record thought he was defending her. I think he damned her. That last statement gets to the heart of the matter, I think. She can feel them? Really? Are they that odious? What could be more descriptive of a Blue or a Red?<br /><br />I didn't take Alexander that literally. I'm as sure Blues and Reds interact with one another as I am sure that not all out-groups are more like us than not or that not all in-groups are a convenience to be used. Even so, I think he has a point. For most people like-interests, class, culture, and geography determine associations. For most people political views come in a distant 5th at best and are not discussed often. So Blues and Reds do interact though they may not know it. <br /><br />But not so those consumed by politics -- politicians, candidates, party strategists, pundits -- who do seem to chose sides based on politics. But it is those very relatively few consumed by politics who take up all the bandwidth and do the most to create anger, even hatred, and point a finger. Although I don't recall him using the word, much of what Alexander describes is scapegoating. All that out-group, in-group stuff is expanded on by Renee Girard, and that out-group that lives among us serves as the scapegoat.<br /><br />Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05353532874773316117noreply@blogger.com